Comments on: Safari vs. Firefox: Does Safari Measure Up? http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/ Open Source, Open Standards Sat, 05 Oct 2013 13:48:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Damien Armbrister http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-240179 Damien Armbrister Thu, 31 May 2012 05:04:04 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-240179 I simply had to thank you very much yet again. I'm not certain the things I would've accomplished without the actual techniques contributed by you directly on my concern. It had been an absolute scary condition in my position, but noticing the expert tactic you managed the issue made me to jump over joy. I'm grateful for this work and even pray you are aware of a powerful job that you are carrying out instructing others thru your webblog. Probably you have never got to know all of us. I simply had to thank you very much yet again. I’m not certain the things I would’ve accomplished without the actual techniques contributed by you directly on my concern. It had been an absolute scary condition in my position, but noticing the expert tactic you managed the issue made me to jump over joy. I’m grateful for this work and even pray you are aware of a powerful job that you are carrying out instructing others thru your webblog. Probably you have never got to know all of us.

]]> By: jshanab http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6558 jshanab Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6558 Safari may very well partially displace FireFox. In my opinion Firefox tries to hard to be like another browser. It constantly crashes, is presumptuous in it's choices and has to be because of it's oversimplified dialogs. It is always a fight to get it to behave and it blocks things needed to done. The Seamonkey browser is far better. Safari may very well partially displace FireFox. In my opinion Firefox tries to hard to be like another browser. It constantly crashes, is presumptuous in it’s choices and has to be because of it’s oversimplified dialogs. It is always a fight to get it to behave and it blocks things needed to done. The Seamonkey browser is far better.

]]> By: k405 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6559 k405 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6559 I'm mostly a Mac user, but I also use Linux and sometimes are obliged to use Windows. I guess we all agree that almost <i>any</i> browser is better than IE whatever the version one uses.<br /> On both Windows and Linux the obvious choice is Firefox. It's fast, secure and stable, with a lot of customization possibilities. <br /> On the Mac, although Firefox is very nice to have, the feel of the UI is not so native, so one tend to use Safari as it feels at home and you can use Apple's services like Dictionary lookup with a combination of keys, send a link or the webpage you are viewing directly to Mail.app (which obviously you can do on Firefox). But the real strength of Safari on the Mac is to use the other services like Speech (that speaks out selected text), Summarize (a utility that automatically summarizes selected text), etc. You can pass data to other Mac applications that support the services framework, ad for a serious Mac user there may be a lot of that apps. It's obvious that this advantage is purely Mac centric and is inexistent to a Windows user. But it explains why many (not every) Mac user sticks to Safari instead of Opera or Firefox. <br /> I haven't tried <a>Camino</a>, a browser that uses the Gecko engine but is an attempt to give a more native Mac look and feel.<br /> Both on Windows and Mac, Safari is fast. And I can say the same of Firefox. There are a lot of benchmarks available on the web. For me, Safari is fast enough to get my work done, as well as Firefox. Both are enough "standards compliant" (think of ACID3 and stuff like that) to ensure that webpages are displayed properly (sorry, IE). It's just that Safari fits better in <i>my workflow</i>. Your mileage may vary and that's fine.<br /> <blockquote cite="">Apple really needs to improve feed management if they want people to use Safari as a full-blown feed reader</blockquote> I don't think Apple wants to use Safari as the main reader. It's RSS support is aimed at the user who suscribes to a merely a few feeds. You can also use Apple's Mail.app to manage your RSS subscriptions with fairly the same behavior. But if you're serious on RSS, a dedicated reader app would fit better to your needs. On the Mac side, NetNewsWire is a must have, it's scriptable, elegant and fast. NewsGator, the company behind NetNewsWire offers alternatives for Windows (I don't know if they do for Linux). All of them include synchronization between a web interface, and as many copies of NetNewsWire you have in your computers or devices. For free, if you were wondering.<br /> <blockquote>Safari isn’t open source, it hinders direct involvement in its development</blockquote> This is not entirely true. Although you cannot involve directly into Safari's development, you can involve in the <a href="http://webkit.org/" rel="nofollow">WebKit Open Source Project</a>. Webkit is the engine that Safari and other Mac OS X apps use to deal with webpages. As for this kind of development, isn't this the same model that projects like OpenSolaris/Solaris, OpenSUSE/SUSE Linux, Fedora/RHEL among others use? <br /> It would be nice that you review MobileSafari and compare it's performance to other mobile browsers. Much of the growth in Safari's market-share is due to it's use in mobile devices (aka iPhone). I’m mostly a Mac user, but I also use Linux and sometimes are obliged to use Windows. I guess we all agree that almost any browser is better than IE whatever the version one uses.
On both Windows and Linux the obvious choice is Firefox. It’s fast, secure and stable, with a lot of customization possibilities.
On the Mac, although Firefox is very nice to have, the feel of the UI is not so native, so one tend to use Safari as it feels at home and you can use Apple’s services like Dictionary lookup with a combination of keys, send a link or the webpage you are viewing directly to Mail.app (which obviously you can do on Firefox). But the real strength of Safari on the Mac is to use the other services like Speech (that speaks out selected text), Summarize (a utility that automatically summarizes selected text), etc. You can pass data to other Mac applications that support the services framework, ad for a serious Mac user there may be a lot of that apps. It’s obvious that this advantage is purely Mac centric and is inexistent to a Windows user. But it explains why many (not every) Mac user sticks to Safari instead of Opera or Firefox.
I haven’t tried Camino, a browser that uses the Gecko engine but is an attempt to give a more native Mac look and feel.
Both on Windows and Mac, Safari is fast. And I can say the same of Firefox. There are a lot of benchmarks available on the web. For me, Safari is fast enough to get my work done, as well as Firefox. Both are enough “standards compliant” (think of ACID3 and stuff like that) to ensure that webpages are displayed properly (sorry, IE). It’s just that Safari fits better in my workflow. Your mileage may vary and that’s fine.

Apple really needs to improve feed management if they want people to use Safari as a full-blown feed reader

I don’t think Apple wants to use Safari as the main reader. It’s RSS support is aimed at the user who suscribes to a merely a few feeds. You can also use Apple’s Mail.app to manage your RSS subscriptions with fairly the same behavior. But if you’re serious on RSS, a dedicated reader app would fit better to your needs. On the Mac side, NetNewsWire is a must have, it’s scriptable, elegant and fast. NewsGator, the company behind NetNewsWire offers alternatives for Windows (I don’t know if they do for Linux). All of them include synchronization between a web interface, and as many copies of NetNewsWire you have in your computers or devices. For free, if you were wondering.

Safari isn’t open source, it hinders direct involvement in its development

This is not entirely true. Although you cannot involve directly into Safari’s development, you can involve in the WebKit Open Source Project. Webkit is the engine that Safari and other Mac OS X apps use to deal with webpages. As for this kind of development, isn’t this the same model that projects like OpenSolaris/Solaris, OpenSUSE/SUSE Linux, Fedora/RHEL among others use?
It would be nice that you review MobileSafari and compare it’s performance to other mobile browsers. Much of the growth in Safari’s market-share is due to it’s use in mobile devices (aka iPhone).

]]> By: donnelll http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6560 donnelll Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6560 I believe the Top Sites feature is fairly nifty as well, however I think it would have been more beneficial ( for myself anyhow) if that Top sites remained static of ones that I chose and each window act like an individual tab and it stayed on the sight clicked on, then it would be a very nifty interface. I believe the Top Sites feature is fairly nifty as well, however I think it would have been more beneficial ( for myself anyhow) if that Top sites remained static of ones that I chose and each window act like an individual tab and it stayed on the sight clicked on, then it would be a very nifty interface.

]]> By: voidmain http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6561 voidmain Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6561 Just a few things I've noticed:<br /> <br /> - Safari is more standards compliant than FireFox and is getting better with each release. When you really get into intricate CSS and DHTML, safari does a better job. I've found that FireFox and IE 7 and 8 are now rendering about equal while Safari excels<br /> <br /> - Safari is fast. Last time I checked, Safari was beating everyone at the benchmarks for AJAX and JavaScript as well as rendering.<br /> <br /> - Safari on a Mac has that seamless integration with everything else (Mail.app, Address Book, etc) that makes life easy. Windows is coming along with IE on the latest beta of Windows 8 (or whatever it is called), but they are still way behind the curve. I used solely Linux for the past 12 years and finally made the Mac switch last year and this was mainly due to how nicely Apple integrates everything, it's a great development platform, no driver messes, no crashes. Linux was starting to suffer from the mess of having so many different kernels, window managers, APIs and apps, that I was finding it was crashing consistently. This was also true of FireFox on Linux. I realized in the end that time is money and wasting my time battling with Linux was not worth it. Just a few things I’ve noticed:

– Safari is more standards compliant than FireFox and is getting better with each release. When you really get into intricate CSS and DHTML, safari does a better job. I’ve found that FireFox and IE 7 and 8 are now rendering about equal while Safari excels

– Safari is fast. Last time I checked, Safari was beating everyone at the benchmarks for AJAX and JavaScript as well as rendering.

– Safari on a Mac has that seamless integration with everything else (Mail.app, Address Book, etc) that makes life easy. Windows is coming along with IE on the latest beta of Windows 8 (or whatever it is called), but they are still way behind the curve. I used solely Linux for the past 12 years and finally made the Mac switch last year and this was mainly due to how nicely Apple integrates everything, it’s a great development platform, no driver messes, no crashes. Linux was starting to suffer from the mess of having so many different kernels, window managers, APIs and apps, that I was finding it was crashing consistently. This was also true of FireFox on Linux. I realized in the end that time is money and wasting my time battling with Linux was not worth it.

]]> By: masinick http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6562 masinick Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6562 I have been periodically trying out Safari on a Windows Vista system. I first tried it when 3.2 was out, then I grabbed the first test release of 4.0 that I could find, and finally Version 4.0 when it came out. At first I found it to render AJAX style pages really well, but so-so on other stuff. I found it difficult to get used to, but really fast on the Google services in particular, much like Google Chrome, which shares some of the same back end rendering technology.<br /> <br /> Yesterday though, I ran into a Yahoo news story about a woman who lost a large legal case involving the redistribution of music content. That page simply would not stay up in Safari; I tried 4 or 5 times, and each time it would open up, then want to close the browser. Every other browser I tried, including Chrome, had no problems displaying the story and navigating through it.<br /> <br /> I had been really following Webkit based browsers because it seemed that they really had an edge on rendering pages with a lot of Javascript content. Well, it now seems like the Gecko engine is catching up. In the past few days, I have been running test versions of both Firefox (in both Shiretoko and Minefield variations) and Seamonkey 2.0B1pre, all of them using the latest nightly builds.<br /> <br /> Earlier this week, I was impressed at how fast Safari and Chrome would page through messages in Gmail. Yesterday, however, I did the same experiment using Seamonkey, and it was at least as fast, if not faster, and it exhibited no unusual quirks, something that I cannot say about either Safari or Chrome.<br /> <br /> This browser is certainly worth watching, as is Chrome, but for now, the Mozilla family of browsers (Firefox and Seamonkey) seem to do a better job overall, when you take into account not just Javascript pages, but all Web content. They have also stepped up their competency with Javascript, and are doing as well as anything else. I'll stick with the Mozilla family, but I will continue to watch the others for interesting developments. I have been periodically trying out Safari on a Windows Vista system. I first tried it when 3.2 was out, then I grabbed the first test release of 4.0 that I could find, and finally Version 4.0 when it came out. At first I found it to render AJAX style pages really well, but so-so on other stuff. I found it difficult to get used to, but really fast on the Google services in particular, much like Google Chrome, which shares some of the same back end rendering technology.

Yesterday though, I ran into a Yahoo news story about a woman who lost a large legal case involving the redistribution of music content. That page simply would not stay up in Safari; I tried 4 or 5 times, and each time it would open up, then want to close the browser. Every other browser I tried, including Chrome, had no problems displaying the story and navigating through it.

I had been really following Webkit based browsers because it seemed that they really had an edge on rendering pages with a lot of Javascript content. Well, it now seems like the Gecko engine is catching up. In the past few days, I have been running test versions of both Firefox (in both Shiretoko and Minefield variations) and Seamonkey 2.0B1pre, all of them using the latest nightly builds.

Earlier this week, I was impressed at how fast Safari and Chrome would page through messages in Gmail. Yesterday, however, I did the same experiment using Seamonkey, and it was at least as fast, if not faster, and it exhibited no unusual quirks, something that I cannot say about either Safari or Chrome.

This browser is certainly worth watching, as is Chrome, but for now, the Mozilla family of browsers (Firefox and Seamonkey) seem to do a better job overall, when you take into account not just Javascript pages, but all Web content. They have also stepped up their competency with Javascript, and are doing as well as anything else. I’ll stick with the Mozilla family, but I will continue to watch the others for interesting developments.

]]> By: lhartzman http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6563 lhartzman Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7377/#comment-6563 <p>Passing someone in the hall at work the other day I overheard a comment on the new version of Safari on Windows. The person said that it did appear faster than Firefox (probably the latest 3.0 release), but that it was taking up 30% of his CPU. Anyone else notice this on Windows (or even Mac)? </p> Passing someone in the hall at work the other day I overheard a comment on the new version of Safari on Windows. The person said that it did appear faster than Firefox (probably the latest 3.0 release), but that it was taking up 30% of his CPU. Anyone else notice this on Windows (or even Mac)?

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