Comments on: Farewell Songbird, We Hardly Knew Ye http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/ Open Source, Open Standards Sat, 05 Oct 2013 13:48:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: scouser73 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8231 scouser73 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8231 <p>Songbird was bloated and stagnant, essentially a browser capable of accessing a music collection. </p> <p>There are so many better alternatives; Amarok, Audacious, Banshee, BPMX, Clementine, Decibel, Exaile, Gnome Music Player, Gmusic Browser, Guayadeque, JUK, Kaffeine, Kplayer, Listen, Miro, Muine, MPD, Mplayer, Quod Libet, Real Player (for Linux), Rhythmbox, Sonata, VLC, XMMS</p> <p>My personal favourite is Rhythmbox, and now that the Ubuntu Music Store is on there, then it just gets better. </p> Songbird was bloated and stagnant, essentially a browser capable of accessing a music collection.

There are so many better alternatives; Amarok, Audacious, Banshee, BPMX, Clementine, Decibel, Exaile, Gnome Music Player, Gmusic Browser, Guayadeque, JUK, Kaffeine, Kplayer, Listen, Miro, Muine, MPD, Mplayer, Quod Libet, Real Player (for Linux), Rhythmbox, Sonata, VLC, XMMS

My personal favourite is Rhythmbox, and now that the Ubuntu Music Store is on there, then it just gets better.

]]> By: zman58 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8232 zman58 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8232 <p>Maybe someone paid them to specifically drop Linux support? ...Some corporate entity with deep pockets and interests in keeping Linux down. Any ideas? Conspiracy theory... </p> Maybe someone paid them to specifically drop Linux support? …Some corporate entity with deep pockets and interests in keeping Linux down. Any ideas? Conspiracy theory…

]]> By: hollow http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8233 hollow Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8233 <p>Most likely that a Windows or worse, Mac advocate/zealot has taken over the helm or a higher-up position in POTI and decided that Linux is just a distant cousin, he\'s never really used it (Apart from in 1999 when it didn\'t boot properly most of the time in Fedora Core and if it did it wouldn\'t register his sound card properly, I had the same experience) and he\'s decided that Windows and OSX are the way forward.</p> <p>Well, the Linux userbase grows everyday, as does the OSX one unfortunately, whilst the Windows userbase falls daily, they\'ve gained a little ground by producing a half reasonable operating system, but I\'m a developer and IT engineer for an IT outsourcing company, and we are providing corporate customers with more and more Linux machines and Macs by the day. </p> Most likely that a Windows or worse, Mac advocate/zealot has taken over the helm or a higher-up position in POTI and decided that Linux is just a distant cousin, he\’s never really used it (Apart from in 1999 when it didn\’t boot properly most of the time in Fedora Core and if it did it wouldn\’t register his sound card properly, I had the same experience) and he\’s decided that Windows and OSX are the way forward.

Well, the Linux userbase grows everyday, as does the OSX one unfortunately, whilst the Windows userbase falls daily, they\’ve gained a little ground by producing a half reasonable operating system, but I\’m a developer and IT engineer for an IT outsourcing company, and we are providing corporate customers with more and more Linux machines and Macs by the day.

]]> By: fredwarren http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8234 fredwarren Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8234 <p>In the month prior to the announcement I went to the site once, downloaded it and installed it on 5 computers. I was in the process of switching every linux system I had set up for all of my friends over to SongBird. That process has now halted.</p> <p>I am not mad, I am just not interested in where they are going. As worse than second class citizens there is now zero support for any plug-in issues we might have. Out of the box, the program is only so-so. Now I have just been promised that there will be plug-in problems and incompatibilities in the future, and they may very well be insurmountable. I am not interested in going there. It seems that Amarok 2.3 seems to be back on the right track and will support Linux.</p> <p>I am reminded of the Star Trek Next Gen episode where Pickard asks the Klingon High Commanded for a cloaked vessel. They asked him what he had to offer for it and he replied \"My gratitude\". They further asked him, what if they did not loan him the ship, he simply stated, \"Well then, someone else would have my gratitude.\"</p> <p>Someone else will have the Linux communities gratitude. I can tell you that I will not recommend the program to Window users. Why would I get them addicted to a program that would tie them to Windows and all of its security problems? </p> In the month prior to the announcement I went to the site once, downloaded it and installed it on 5 computers. I was in the process of switching every linux system I had set up for all of my friends over to SongBird. That process has now halted.

I am not mad, I am just not interested in where they are going. As worse than second class citizens there is now zero support for any plug-in issues we might have. Out of the box, the program is only so-so. Now I have just been promised that there will be plug-in problems and incompatibilities in the future, and they may very well be insurmountable. I am not interested in going there. It seems that Amarok 2.3 seems to be back on the right track and will support Linux.

I am reminded of the Star Trek Next Gen episode where Pickard asks the Klingon High Commanded for a cloaked vessel. They asked him what he had to offer for it and he replied \”My gratitude\”. They further asked him, what if they did not loan him the ship, he simply stated, \”Well then, someone else would have my gratitude.\”

Someone else will have the Linux communities gratitude. I can tell you that I will not recommend the program to Window users. Why would I get them addicted to a program that would tie them to Windows and all of its security problems?

]]> By: dbayer http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8235 dbayer Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8235 <p>I originally found and started using Songbird specifically because it was cross platform. At the time, I used Linux at home, Mac on my office desk, and Windows on my notebook. I wanted a player that I could use across all platforms. I\'m disappointed to lose Linux support for Songbird, and will likely drop using it entirely. There are some other players that I like better on Mac/Win, so I no longer have any reason to use Songbird. </p> I originally found and started using Songbird specifically because it was cross platform. At the time, I used Linux at home, Mac on my office desk, and Windows on my notebook. I wanted a player that I could use across all platforms. I\’m disappointed to lose Linux support for Songbird, and will likely drop using it entirely. There are some other players that I like better on Mac/Win, so I no longer have any reason to use Songbird.

]]> By: coskibum http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8236 coskibum Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8236 <p>Great Article Christopher but you left out one important point. The developers of Songbird who use Linux are starting their own Music/Media player. Please come check out \"The Nightingale Project\" http://getnightingale.org/ </p> Great Article Christopher but you left out one important point. The developers of Songbird who use Linux are starting their own Music/Media player. Please come check out \”The Nightingale Project\” http://getnightingale.org/

]]> By: reedmb http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8237 reedmb Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8237 <p>One way to look at metrics about bug report ratios and usage ratios is the bug reports generally trend with usage and this is a good thing. I would contend this is wrong. Bug reports should be screened and be unique. All things being the same in each operating system environment, then bug reports in each OS should be about 1/3 of total bugs. To whit, the bugs are due to interaction of Songbird with OS. Remember, a bug in Songbird would be equally reported in each OS because it is bug seen in each OS. So, one would expect a smaller ratio of unique bug reports in the larger penetration OS. The situation is things in each OS environment are not the same.<br /> I conclude from data: There are many more bugs in WinOS environment due to problems with WinOS and that WinOS is using an disproportionate share of POTI resources.<br /> Hypothesis: POTI is using so many of its resources maintaining WinOS interface due to WinOS bugs and idiosyncrasies that for POTI to survive it must drop something. Due to dominate WinOS market share it can not drop WinOS and survive. To me, this is writing on the wall that Songbird is in deep trouble (economic &/or technical). </p> One way to look at metrics about bug report ratios and usage ratios is the bug reports generally trend with usage and this is a good thing. I would contend this is wrong. Bug reports should be screened and be unique. All things being the same in each operating system environment, then bug reports in each OS should be about 1/3 of total bugs. To whit, the bugs are due to interaction of Songbird with OS. Remember, a bug in Songbird would be equally reported in each OS because it is bug seen in each OS. So, one would expect a smaller ratio of unique bug reports in the larger penetration OS. The situation is things in each OS environment are not the same.
I conclude from data: There are many more bugs in WinOS environment due to problems with WinOS and that WinOS is using an disproportionate share of POTI resources.
Hypothesis: POTI is using so many of its resources maintaining WinOS interface due to WinOS bugs and idiosyncrasies that for POTI to survive it must drop something. Due to dominate WinOS market share it can not drop WinOS and survive. To me, this is writing on the wall that Songbird is in deep trouble (economic &/or technical).

]]> By: grabur http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8238 grabur Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8238 <p>What benefits are there for a cross platform app like this? Is it the amount of developers? The song bird website still promotes the merits of cross platform software.</p> <p>Although diversity is meant to be good, couldn\'t we pool the developers into a few audio players for linux and make them really awesome?</p> <p>I\'m slightly concerned that a lot of the desktop apps coming out, are shallow versions of command line equivalents, or products that were released a decade ago. Where is the innovation? I\'m worried Linux could get left behind - without a couple of desktop jewels in it\'s crown. </p> What benefits are there for a cross platform app like this? Is it the amount of developers? The song bird website still promotes the merits of cross platform software.

Although diversity is meant to be good, couldn\’t we pool the developers into a few audio players for linux and make them really awesome?

I\’m slightly concerned that a lot of the desktop apps coming out, are shallow versions of command line equivalents, or products that were released a decade ago. Where is the innovation? I\’m worried Linux could get left behind – without a couple of desktop jewels in it\’s crown.

]]> By: csmart http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8239 csmart Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8239 <p>@coskibum, while I didn\'t go into details, I did link to the Nightingale Project in my conclusion ;-)</p> <p>\"What this will all mean for the project remains to be seen. Sure, some happy-go-lucky hackers might branch or <a>fork the code</a>...\"</p> <p>-c </p> @coskibum, while I didn\’t go into details, I did link to the Nightingale Project in my conclusion ;-)

\”What this will all mean for the project remains to be seen. Sure, some happy-go-lucky hackers might branch or fork the code…\”

-c

]]> By: fredwarren http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8240 fredwarren Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8240 <p>@coskibum the only problem I have is with plugins. A developer can put ZERO effort into making a plugin linux compatible and still be totally Ok as a SongBird Plugin. I am afraid that what will happen over a period of time is the API the old plugins run on will be broke. So Nightingale will not have any of the old plugins working, and most of the new Songbird plugins will not work. That will leave Nightingale as a second class citizen. I don\'t want to get stuck in that poisition. To be honest, I won\'t know if I am right or wrong for abandoning Songbird for another 2 or 3 years.</p> <p>@reedmb I had not looked at it that way before. But if you are right Songbird is in a lot of trouble. Ditching Linux will hardly lighten their workload. MacOS and Linux maybe, just Linux, not so much </p> @coskibum the only problem I have is with plugins. A developer can put ZERO effort into making a plugin linux compatible and still be totally Ok as a SongBird Plugin. I am afraid that what will happen over a period of time is the API the old plugins run on will be broke. So Nightingale will not have any of the old plugins working, and most of the new Songbird plugins will not work. That will leave Nightingale as a second class citizen. I don\’t want to get stuck in that poisition. To be honest, I won\’t know if I am right or wrong for abandoning Songbird for another 2 or 3 years.

@reedmb I had not looked at it that way before. But if you are right Songbird is in a lot of trouble. Ditching Linux will hardly lighten their workload. MacOS and Linux maybe, just Linux, not so much

]]> By: smino http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8241 smino Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8241 <p>Being the heavy linux user that I am, having replaced all windows desktops in the house with linux mint 8, I actually do not care about songbird. I tried it a few times, and it was just not there. As a former windows user, I would never use it either, when I have iTunes and thrid party apps that allow me to directly copy my mp3 and movies over to my ipod. I like simplicty. I normally root for open source and cross platform ability. I see songbird failing very quickly. When are they going to drop MAC? </p> Being the heavy linux user that I am, having replaced all windows desktops in the house with linux mint 8, I actually do not care about songbird. I tried it a few times, and it was just not there. As a former windows user, I would never use it either, when I have iTunes and thrid party apps that allow me to directly copy my mp3 and movies over to my ipod. I like simplicty. I normally root for open source and cross platform ability. I see songbird failing very quickly. When are they going to drop MAC?

]]> By: slithytove2 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8242 slithytove2 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8242 <p>Can anybody suggest a FOSS music application that works on windows and Linux? </p> Can anybody suggest a FOSS music application that works on windows and Linux?

]]> By: csmart http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8243 csmart Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7761/#comment-8243 <p>@slithytove2, Amarok? - http://amarok.kde.org/ </p> @slithytove2, Amarok? – http://amarok.kde.org/

]]>