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	<title>Comments on: Android and iPhone, and Then Everyone Else</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/</link>
	<description>Open Source, Open Standards</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 13:48:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: gamesbook</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8407</link>
		<dc:creator>gamesbook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8407</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;\&quot;Somewhere in the middle of this, some fellow named Linus decided to write his own operating system kernel, namely Linux.\&quot; Actually, this should read \&quot;At about the same time, ...\&quot;. Why?  Window 3.1 was released in 1990; first release of Linux was in 1991.  Windows NT in 1993 and Linux Version 1 in 1994.  So the rise of Linux has paralled the rise of Windows - its just that, for the most part, its taken \&#039;the road less travelled\&#039;.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>\&#8221;Somewhere in the middle of this, some fellow named Linus decided to write his own operating system kernel, namely Linux.\&#8221; Actually, this should read \&#8221;At about the same time, &#8230;\&#8221;. Why?  Window 3.1 was released in 1990; first release of Linux was in 1991.  Windows NT in 1993 and Linux Version 1 in 1994.  So the rise of Linux has paralled the rise of Windows &#8211; its just that, for the most part, its taken \&#8217;the road less travelled\&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: fableson</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8408</link>
		<dc:creator>fableson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8408</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@gamesbook: thanks for the dates.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@gamesbook: thanks for the dates.</p>
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		<title>By: ewildgoose</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8409</link>
		<dc:creator>ewildgoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8409</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@gamesbook: I think it would be fairer to note that Windows 1.0 was released in 1985.  Windows 3.1 had quite a bit of development behind it and Windows NT was actually an exceptional product for the time and standing on the shoulders of a ton of work done by IBM+MS in producing OS/2&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For Linux to have got to where it was by 1994 was pretty exceptional, but it was still a very small project being worked on by a handful of users in their freetime back then.  The level of contribution was vastly different back then and linux actually developed very quickly all things considered&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Linux has always struggled by not having a display system which ticked all the right boxes for the end user.  This hobbled in as much as it was harder to build desktop apps, which in turn drove all those early installation decisions.  (Yes the X window system is very *clever* though).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Server based use isn\&#039;t limited by output device support in the same way and hence linux has seen great support in that area (I personally wouldn\&#039;t use anything else on a server).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Android, Maemo, the Intel thing, etc have basically sponsored turning linux into a really strong \&quot;desktop\&quot; operating system and this is really exciting to see.  I just hope that other vendors will see the possibilities here and other desktop orientated systems will appear in the kind of strength necessary to grab a significant market share.  Perhaps someone can take an Ubuntu/Redhat derivative and bundle it with some hot laptop hardware, plus an app store and carve out a range of profitable products...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The big problem will likely remain market fragmentation if one clear winner doesn\&#039;t emerge.  Android has taken a huge amount of development to get to the position it is and really that work needs to be re-used where possible and not expended developing 3 different user focused linux smartphone derivatives, each soaking up enough development that they all get close to being iThing killers, but none of them ever covering the last mile...
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@gamesbook: I think it would be fairer to note that Windows 1.0 was released in 1985.  Windows 3.1 had quite a bit of development behind it and Windows NT was actually an exceptional product for the time and standing on the shoulders of a ton of work done by IBM+MS in producing OS/2</p>
<p>For Linux to have got to where it was by 1994 was pretty exceptional, but it was still a very small project being worked on by a handful of users in their freetime back then.  The level of contribution was vastly different back then and linux actually developed very quickly all things considered</p>
<p>I think Linux has always struggled by not having a display system which ticked all the right boxes for the end user.  This hobbled in as much as it was harder to build desktop apps, which in turn drove all those early installation decisions.  (Yes the X window system is very *clever* though).  </p>
<p>Server based use isn\&#8217;t limited by output device support in the same way and hence linux has seen great support in that area (I personally wouldn\&#8217;t use anything else on a server).</p>
<p>Android, Maemo, the Intel thing, etc have basically sponsored turning linux into a really strong \&#8221;desktop\&#8221; operating system and this is really exciting to see.  I just hope that other vendors will see the possibilities here and other desktop orientated systems will appear in the kind of strength necessary to grab a significant market share.  Perhaps someone can take an Ubuntu/Redhat derivative and bundle it with some hot laptop hardware, plus an app store and carve out a range of profitable products&#8230;</p>
<p>The big problem will likely remain market fragmentation if one clear winner doesn\&#8217;t emerge.  Android has taken a huge amount of development to get to the position it is and really that work needs to be re-used where possible and not expended developing 3 different user focused linux smartphone derivatives, each soaking up enough development that they all get close to being iThing killers, but none of them ever covering the last mile&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jmawilliams</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8410</link>
		<dc:creator>jmawilliams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8410</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thought you may be interested in this...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Recently reviewed OS and browser use, particularly of target signups - entrepreneurs signing up to www.efactor.com - and this led to looking at mobile devices.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Summary - Apple rules with 90%, with a 10% bit of Android. Nothing else seems to make it...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The blogs with the figures are at:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Main OS/Browser: http://www.efactor.com/p/blogs/id=1797&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mobile devices: http://www.efactor.com/p/blogs/id=1837
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought you may be interested in this&#8230;</p>
<p>Recently reviewed OS and browser use, particularly of target signups &#8211; entrepreneurs signing up to <a href="http://www.efactor.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.efactor.com</a> &#8211; and this led to looking at mobile devices.</p>
<p>Summary &#8211; Apple rules with 90%, with a 10% bit of Android. Nothing else seems to make it&#8230;</p>
<p>The blogs with the figures are at:</p>
<p>Main OS/Browser: <a href="http://www.efactor.com/p/blogs/id=1797" rel="nofollow">http://www.efactor.com/p/blogs/id=1797</a></p>
<p>Mobile devices: <a href="http://www.efactor.com/p/blogs/id=1837" rel="nofollow">http://www.efactor.com/p/blogs/id=1837</a></p>
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		<title>By: stevekerr</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8411</link>
		<dc:creator>stevekerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8411</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;\&quot;...Android continues to lack an effective desktop companion such as iTunes.\&quot; - a bizarre observation as iTunes represents all that is bad about Apple\&#039;s \&#039;lock-in policies\&#039;. Why on Earth would I want something \&quot;such as iTunes\&quot;? I would much prefer to control what content I put on *my* phone, and how I go about doing it, not be constrained to how the phone manufacturer wants me to do it. Yes, I do have an Android phone - a G1 as it happens.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Personally, I despise iTunes and it\&#039;s inability to have been written (for Windows) with the slightest regard to the Microsoft style guide. I use Winamp to load content on to my iPod Classic. I accept this is a compromise but I didn\&#039;t have a lot of choice about getting the iPod.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>\&#8221;&#8230;Android continues to lack an effective desktop companion such as iTunes.\&#8221; &#8211; a bizarre observation as iTunes represents all that is bad about Apple\&#8217;s \&#8217;lock-in policies\&#8217;. Why on Earth would I want something \&#8221;such as iTunes\&#8221;? I would much prefer to control what content I put on *my* phone, and how I go about doing it, not be constrained to how the phone manufacturer wants me to do it. Yes, I do have an Android phone &#8211; a G1 as it happens.</p>
<p>Personally, I despise iTunes and it\&#8217;s inability to have been written (for Windows) with the slightest regard to the Microsoft style guide. I use Winamp to load content on to my iPod Classic. I accept this is a compromise but I didn\&#8217;t have a lot of choice about getting the iPod.</p>
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		<title>By: csmart</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8412</link>
		<dc:creator>csmart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8412</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@stevekerr, I don\&#039;t think that Frank is saying that the lock-in model of iTunes (and Apple products in general) is good, but he acknowledges that it has contributed to the popularity of Apple products. iTunes and the iPod launched a revolution, like it or not.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-c
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stevekerr, I don\&#8217;t think that Frank is saying that the lock-in model of iTunes (and Apple products in general) is good, but he acknowledges that it has contributed to the popularity of Apple products. iTunes and the iPod launched a revolution, like it or not.</p>
<p>-c</p>
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		<title>By: stevekerr</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8413</link>
		<dc:creator>stevekerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8413</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@csmart, I think I agree, at least partly. I accept Apple are innovative and have launched a revolution or two. My concern was with the use of the word \&#039;effective\&#039;. I don\&#039;t see what iTunes brings to the party - it is (pretty much) a mandatory interface in to Apple\&#039;s products. Most, if not all, other phone/media player products give you the flexibility to manage content with any tool you choose by presenting themselves as a mass storage device. I guess Apple\&#039;s market behaviour is an attempt to protect their IP, but surely this amounts to anti-competitive behaviour? I struggle to see how Microsoft got in to so much trouble a few years ago for what I would consider \&#039;lesser crimes\&#039;, whilst Apple are free to lock-in and tie-down users as much as they please. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For me, the biggest problem is that most of the populous don\&#039;t see why Apple\&#039;s behaviour is wrong; the lock-in etc. is not a direct problem for me as I will never buy in to it.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@csmart, I think I agree, at least partly. I accept Apple are innovative and have launched a revolution or two. My concern was with the use of the word \&#8217;effective\&#8217;. I don\&#8217;t see what iTunes brings to the party &#8211; it is (pretty much) a mandatory interface in to Apple\&#8217;s products. Most, if not all, other phone/media player products give you the flexibility to manage content with any tool you choose by presenting themselves as a mass storage device. I guess Apple\&#8217;s market behaviour is an attempt to protect their IP, but surely this amounts to anti-competitive behaviour? I struggle to see how Microsoft got in to so much trouble a few years ago for what I would consider \&#8217;lesser crimes\&#8217;, whilst Apple are free to lock-in and tie-down users as much as they please. </p>
<p>For me, the biggest problem is that most of the populous don\&#8217;t see why Apple\&#8217;s behaviour is wrong; the lock-in etc. is not a direct problem for me as I will never buy in to it.</p>
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		<title>By: unoengborg</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8414</link>
		<dc:creator>unoengborg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8414</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The fact that Android have no iTunes-like desktop companion is a strength, not a weakness. The future is mobile and there will be no need for desktop companions in a few years from now. The phone will be your desktop. Your storage will be in the cloud.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that Android have no iTunes-like desktop companion is a strength, not a weakness. The future is mobile and there will be no need for desktop companions in a few years from now. The phone will be your desktop. Your storage will be in the cloud.</p>
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		<title>By: greggwon</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8415</link>
		<dc:creator>greggwon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8415</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The main problem for Linux is that it\&#039;s not in control of much of anything around it.  Microsoft got to dictate how drivers worked and of course manufacturers wanted to write drivers for windows.  They found it hard to invest in drivers for Linux.  There was a very slow startup of drivers for Linux.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Apple builds the hardware, systems and the OS, so they get to focus specifically on user experience, and they\&#039;ve excelled at doing well with specific groups of users doing that with Mac-OS.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The iPhone OS platform made the switch to allowing users to write software that was easily accessible to users.  You don\&#039;t have to search the web, wonder across it, hear about it from your friend etc.  If you need to use your iPhone OS device to do something, there is a place to go and look for what your choices might be.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are reviews by real users, with the application, not somewhere else on some web page that is number 1,000,000 on the google results etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So many things about the the app-store empower users to solve their own problems and have their needs fulfilled in ways that nothing else has yet accomplished.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is Apple making money?  You bet.  Are you making money?  Got any Apple Stock?  If so, then you are making some returns too.  If not, then you might find the \&quot;wall\&quot; of the app-store to be hard to stomach.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It\&#039;s a solution-space and a marketplace all together.  There are lots of ways to do what Apple is doing.  There will be more movement to standalone applications with less \&quot;web page\&quot; solutions for \&quot;application\&quot;.  Especially given the overhead of having a complete HTML-5 browser to do any kind of app.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Times are changing.  Either get on the train, or start laying your own track...
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main problem for Linux is that it\&#8217;s not in control of much of anything around it.  Microsoft got to dictate how drivers worked and of course manufacturers wanted to write drivers for windows.  They found it hard to invest in drivers for Linux.  There was a very slow startup of drivers for Linux.</p>
<p>Apple builds the hardware, systems and the OS, so they get to focus specifically on user experience, and they\&#8217;ve excelled at doing well with specific groups of users doing that with Mac-OS.</p>
<p>The iPhone OS platform made the switch to allowing users to write software that was easily accessible to users.  You don\&#8217;t have to search the web, wonder across it, hear about it from your friend etc.  If you need to use your iPhone OS device to do something, there is a place to go and look for what your choices might be.</p>
<p>There are reviews by real users, with the application, not somewhere else on some web page that is number 1,000,000 on the google results etc.</p>
<p>So many things about the the app-store empower users to solve their own problems and have their needs fulfilled in ways that nothing else has yet accomplished.</p>
<p>Is Apple making money?  You bet.  Are you making money?  Got any Apple Stock?  If so, then you are making some returns too.  If not, then you might find the \&#8221;wall\&#8221; of the app-store to be hard to stomach.</p>
<p>It\&#8217;s a solution-space and a marketplace all together.  There are lots of ways to do what Apple is doing.  There will be more movement to standalone applications with less \&#8221;web page\&#8221; solutions for \&#8221;application\&#8221;.  Especially given the overhead of having a complete HTML-5 browser to do any kind of app.  </p>
<p>Times are changing.  Either get on the train, or start laying your own track&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: robertdaleweir</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8416</link>
		<dc:creator>robertdaleweir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8416</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let us not forget that Mac OS is built from and probably still largely Linux Code, as it started from the Linux Distro Darwin.  They are only building on Linus\&#039;s back.  The last OS Apple built was a complete disaster (OS 9 I believe) and if they had not used Linux ( without any copying credit given, either then nor now) they would probably be in the tank! The real trick of Apple is to take something that was free and call it there own creation.  You cannot steal anything that is FREE, hence like Sun with Unix they profit off the free developers. Too bad.&lt;br /&gt;
  Maybe we should focus on getting Linux Distros into China and India.  Monopolies (nor natural ones) seem to be the rule in the USA.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us not forget that Mac OS is built from and probably still largely Linux Code, as it started from the Linux Distro Darwin.  They are only building on Linus\&#8217;s back.  The last OS Apple built was a complete disaster (OS 9 I believe) and if they had not used Linux ( without any copying credit given, either then nor now) they would probably be in the tank! The real trick of Apple is to take something that was free and call it there own creation.  You cannot steal anything that is FREE, hence like Sun with Unix they profit off the free developers. Too bad.<br />
  Maybe we should focus on getting Linux Distros into China and India.  Monopolies (nor natural ones) seem to be the rule in the USA.</p>
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		<title>By: greggwon</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8417</link>
		<dc:creator>greggwon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8417</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;MACOS-X is based off of Mach, not Linux.  With a little bit of searching, you could see this at prominent places such as&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MACOS-X is based off of Mach, not Linux.  With a little bit of searching, you could see this at prominent places such as</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS_X</a></p>
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		<title>By: robertdaleweir</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8418</link>
		<dc:creator>robertdaleweir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8418</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Since the MacOSX is not available to anyone for discovery of its basis, it seems a moot point.  The main point is \&quot;Apple\&quot; did not create it, regardless. The comment I was addressing was that without a leg up (given it be Unix, Linux or Mach OS) Apple did not build the Basic OS, someone else did! They simply maintain it. They proved, through there many years of thrashing around, that if they had to build something from scratch they would still be trying. I would suspect that the majority of lines of code in their current OS X would be written by Open Source or Universities, many moons ago. They are a Marketing Company not a Technology Company. Cheers...
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the MacOSX is not available to anyone for discovery of its basis, it seems a moot point.  The main point is \&#8221;Apple\&#8221; did not create it, regardless. The comment I was addressing was that without a leg up (given it be Unix, Linux or Mach OS) Apple did not build the Basic OS, someone else did! They simply maintain it. They proved, through there many years of thrashing around, that if they had to build something from scratch they would still be trying. I would suspect that the majority of lines of code in their current OS X would be written by Open Source or Universities, many moons ago. They are a Marketing Company not a Technology Company. Cheers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: greggwon</title>
		<link>http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8419</link>
		<dc:creator>greggwon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7801/#comment-8419</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@robertdaleweir, Anyone can type any line of code in any language, at any point in time.  It is true.  Even a group of monkeys, given enough time, could recreate nearly any collection of characters.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The point of this article is about what is winning in the market place, and why it is winning.  I\&#039;m sure that marketing is important here, Apple has a big Marketing Machine, just like many other companies.  You have to make your product visible and attractive to your potential customers right?  I believe that Apple gets to spend more on Marketing because they have a much smaller technology problem set to waste money on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Apple now makes many different devices, and we can see that this A4 processor is something that is key in their vision.  You may remember the Amiga computer which had 3 different \&quot;key\&quot; processors that worked together to provide features that no other computer, at the time, had.  The A4 is a similar notion in a single package.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;HTC and others may soon work on custom silicon too...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is an interesting battle of more than technology, but in the end, people are buying Apple products because they do work, and you can walk in the Apple store and get it fixed/replaced, talking to a person, face to face.  For many people that beats a 1-800 call to who knows where.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@robertdaleweir, Anyone can type any line of code in any language, at any point in time.  It is true.  Even a group of monkeys, given enough time, could recreate nearly any collection of characters.</p>
<p>The point of this article is about what is winning in the market place, and why it is winning.  I\&#8217;m sure that marketing is important here, Apple has a big Marketing Machine, just like many other companies.  You have to make your product visible and attractive to your potential customers right?  I believe that Apple gets to spend more on Marketing because they have a much smaller technology problem set to waste money on.</p>
<p>Apple now makes many different devices, and we can see that this A4 processor is something that is key in their vision.  You may remember the Amiga computer which had 3 different \&#8221;key\&#8221; processors that worked together to provide features that no other computer, at the time, had.  The A4 is a similar notion in a single package.</p>
<p>HTC and others may soon work on custom silicon too&#8230;</p>
<p>It is an interesting battle of more than technology, but in the end, people are buying Apple products because they do work, and you can walk in the Apple store and get it fixed/replaced, talking to a person, face to face.  For many people that beats a 1-800 call to who knows where.</p>
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